Discussion on Treadmill Experiments

The responses I received are in bold and italics.

Mystery is the way of divine will. I always used to wonder how does Bhakti fare in this age of science and rationality. May your tribe increase!


Our Physics teacher at Little Flower Jr. College,
Mr. EV Subba Rao used to say whether we grow up to become
Engineers or Doctors, we are science students first. That
seems to be true: The methods of science are so much built
into everything that we do.

Vivekananda once said that there should be as many
religions(paths) as there are human beings. How true
he was and he is.

How ironical it is to see people coming from a land of
such visionary leaders not able to tolerate even a single
other religion, let alone billions of religions!

One practice very popular in India is to have a
group discussion of book such as Bhagavatam or
Bharatam. You may think about it.

Many people tend to postpone such activities to retirement,
when they have nothing else to do. But to me, physical growth
is meaningless without spiritual growth. I heard that the
physical body is just a very minor fraction of what we
actually are. Yet we don't care about the other major
fraction of ourselves, causing so much pain to ourselves
and others. If I did not blindly learn what my elders
taught me about religion when I was very young, it would
not have helped me cope up with so many unexpected disasters
in my life. Who knows how life will turn tomorrow? That's
why I think spirituality should be an ongoing part of our
lives.

I defer with u when u say atheist realizes God in a
different way. I understand an aetheist is one who does
not believe in the existance of God. Then where is the
matter of realizing Him?


We do so many things without our knowledge. I think aethiests
realize God without their knowledge. To me, there is no
difference between good and GOD (Generator-Operator-Destructor).
Anyone who is doing good and enabling the activities of generation,
operation and destruction for good is realizing the invisible
force called God in him. Religion and belief in God will help
in doing good, like a tool helps in doing a task. If we believe
that good will happen (optimism / belief in God), there are more
chances that we and the nature can make it happen.

Why do we consider Lord Krishna as God? Just because Bhishma said
that? Or is it because Sri Krishna Himself said that? Neither is
true. Well, we saw the fate of the people in A.P. who claimed to
be the 'Kalis' of this yuga, right? So, how is Sri Krishna
different? Why is Lord Rama a God? Irrespective of what Valmiki
or Vyasa used as figures of speech or encrypted and wrote in
the epics, Sri Rama or Sri Krishna broke no laws of nature to
do miracles. God would come down to earth to preach how to
follow the laws of nature that he made for everyone's benefit.
Not to show how they can be broken.

The only reason we accept them as God is because of the
extent of their consciousness shown in their actions and
their exemplary mindset which is close to divinity or
divinity itself. That's why anyone who does good is being
God in one of His forms. One who does good only and nothing
but good is God Himself. I read this sweet explanation of
God to a little girl somewhere: "Who pops-up the next tissue
in the Kleenex box? It is God!" Since we are grown up, we call
the invisible force present everywhere (BTW, that's what Vishnu
translates to) including within ourselves as God.

U have said that God has not rewarded u in spite of your
telling Him all your problems. We call God when we have
worries just like a manager calls the peon by pressing the
buzzer when he wants his services. Our duty is to worship
God and not to ask for anything, He knows in what
way to help a devotee.


That's a very good way of practising to live in the moment
and leave the rest to the invisible power in and around us
called God. But doing it knowingly may enhance this power
in us towards action. I wouldn't worry about God feeling
bad about using Him. A divine mind or even a mind in the
direction of divinity is beyond these kind of feelings. In
fact God, even in the form we imagine, may feel happy that
we look to Him for everything, like a true 'friend indeed'
feels when we look to him in need and continue so with
gratitude.

Of course gratitude is important - not to God or the true
'friend indeed', but to ourselves. If the 'take' of help
is not associated with the egoless 'give' of gratitude, it
wouldn't count as a help. It would be a loan instead, which
compounds our sins, or worse still, theft, which destroys our
character. Gratitude need not be expressed. As long as we feel
it in our hearts, it should be fine. Sometimes, expressed
gratitude unnecessarily evokes the receipient's ego. Ego is
like an open wound. It feels good when someone blows air on it,
pains at all other times. That's why the sooner we get rid of ego,
the better for us. I'm telling this from my own experience.

You have quoted the example of Basmasura. I feel it is foolish of God Shiva to grant a boon to a
rougue and then suffer the afteevvects and go to Vishnu
for help. Very peculiar the leelas of Gods and Goddesses!


To me, God Shiva is the personification of what the psychologists
call 'subconscious'. This is the most powerful part of ourselves.
There are examples in Psychology where people were made to do
the unbelievable by programming the subconscious. An example that
comes to my mind is that of an ordinary lady who was made to
lift a huge (weighing a ton??) vehicle, when she was hypnotized
to believe that her baby is going to be crushed under it if she
doesn't do it.

This subconscious is innocent, will take whatever
it is given, without questioning. It is also the part of the body
which stays same in sleep and some say, after death as well. Whatever
is the impression that's left on it before death will continue
in the next life. That's why it is said in the Gita that whoever
recites the God's name at the end, will reach the God. That's
why Lord Shiva is also called the God of death, who reclaims
the subconscious after death.

The person with the subconscious mind
can do wonders because s/he doesn't question. Rationale is
sometimes the main blockade to realizing the power, because
the supreme within is beyond rationale. All these reasonings
that I'm giving or you may be thinking may take closer to
the Supreme, but actually realizing the Supreme cannot be
fully reasoned. We should think of it like the concept of infinity.

Anyway, the point is, Lord Siva was helpless. He had to
bow to the power of the meditating mind just like the
subconscious. That's why, it is often said that a devotee
is more powerful than the God Himself. We all know, subconscious
cannot solve problems. It has to depend on the conscious
mind, Lord Vishnu (that's why He's the Operator) for help
in such situations.

And it is not very difficult to explain Bhasmasura desire
also. Though very powerful, the subconscious and its activities
are very very dull. To imagine how dull, just think of not using
the conscious mind for a while. It is so dull. The first reaction
to my effort to teach (without rationale) my son (program his
subconscious, in other words) to recite the sanskrit slokas
when he was 3 or 4 was that he was getting bored. "Dad, I'm
becoming dull with these things. Should we do this at all?" was his
innocent, sweet question. Of course, he started liking it later
and may like it more as he grows, as everyone does.

So, Bhasmasura, the evil that he was, gained power by meditating
with the subconscious mind and once the power was gained, might've
tried to destroy it, so he'll never ever get bored again. The other
thing to observe is that most of these Rakshasas, like Ravana too,
have a good, powerful, subconscious, but a wicked conscious mind.
Puranas say that these daemons were actually Lord Vishnu's
gatekeepers in their previous lives, so that explains the
nature of their subconscious which doesn't change from birth
to birth.

This happens in real life also right? Often, one of the
spouses has a strong subconscious mind and the other a
strong conscious mind. The person with more subconscious
mind is powerful, but is a puppet in the spouse's hands.
I remember how one of my aunties, who never questioned
my paternal uncle ever in her life, used to do unbelievable
amount of work for her 5 daughters, husband, guests,
and still stay fresh and clean with a big smile all day,
in spite of the financial, political and other problems
all around her.

But this aunty is a big zero when it came to doing anything
on her own, out of routine. My uncle had to give her directions
almost in assembly language and people often used to make
fun of her. A strong subconscious mind in the company of
a strong, GOOD conscious mind is the best possible
combination (like Gods Siva-Vishnu).

Why do we consider Lord Rama, and Lord Krishna as avatars of
Vishnu and not Siva? I don't think it's the color of the God,
because in other avatars, He had different color. It's because
subconscious (Siva) has only one way - meditate. It is the
consciousness which is root of diversity, of good and bad,
of everything. (Aren't we now glad that consciousness is
perishable while subconscious or aatma is unperishable?)
Only consciousness (Vishnu) can mend and correct the consciousness
of this world. (I hope I'm reasoning good here.)

u seem to be growing alot


Only yesterday, I looked at a picture of Lord Jesus
and it struck me that most of us are older than He was, when He
was crucified!!

Mostly I spend in meditation and exercise. Somehow
I was into meditation rather than into pujas from my childhood.


Lord Krishna gives the precedence in Bhagavadgita
as: sacrifice of the fruit of action > meditation > knowledge.
So meditation is more powerful than knowledge. It is
said that 1 hr's meditation equals 8 hrs of sleep.

It is certainly nice to read your emails. I read them
and would appreciate you thoughts, more than that I
appreciate your openess to share your personal
thoughts / activities.

I am just wondering (just asking), you may choose not
answer (no problem with me):

-How do you get so much time to write?


Where there's a will, there's a way. I think it's more
to do with interests than time I guess. This reminds me of
one of my favourite hobbies - forwarding at least one e-mail
a day for the last almost 7 years now to a select group
of interested friends. Many of my previous senders stopped
sending, but still there has not been a day when I did not
have a good e-mail to forward for 7 years. Call it inertia,
call it God, anything good has the propensity to continue
on its own.

That's why it is important to start something
good. By its very nature it conitnues. Like the group
recitals of the sanskrit stotras that got started. One person
particularly mocked at my idea of making it a continuous
activity. Doesn't matter if we are not remembered for
starting it. 'God' within us and everywhere else knows
it and we are automatically rewarded.

Do you really get feedback from other group members
on your thoughts (they are good)?


Yes. I get about 15 replies to the weekend mails and
they are still less than 10% of the receipients of
these mails, though. Only replies / my comments to those
which could be of interest to others are included here,
irrespective of whether they're favourable to me / others
or not. Needless to say, just like I don't take questions
like these personally, all of you, please do not take my replies
personally. I'm not trying to blow air on anyone's open
wound (ego), so the replies may not be very pleasing :-).